Eric Mulvin: 00:00
Welcome to the Unfinished Business Podcast, and you do not want to miss today’s episode. I’ve got a really great interview lined up for you guys. We actually get into what it’s really like from the son’s perspective now in the business, growing up in the business, from changing oils to answering the phones to today leading one of Connecticut’s largest transportation companies. You’ll also hear about a 12-year fight to help change state law, to help make wheelchair-accessible transportation possible in Connecticut, and how their company adapted during COVID when some of the most vulnerable people in their community still needed riots. We also talk about where our next guest seized AI, autonomous vehicles, and the future of where transportation is heading next. You don’t want to miss that. But underneath all of that is a much bigger question. How do we make sure that the people aren’t cut off from healthcare, from work, from education, or their communities simply because welcome to the unfinished? There’s a lot packed into this one. And so welcome to the Unfinished Business Podcast. I’m your host, Eric Mulvin, and this is a show where I sit down with CEOs, leaders, visionaries, and creatives who are out there changing the world with their business, with their leadership, with their creativity, or with their organization. Because it doesn’t matter who you are or what you have accomplished. Even someone like Michael Jordan still has hopes and dreams and goals that he’d like to see in his lifetime. And so we explore those on unfinished business with Eric Mulvin. Today’s episode is brought to you by Pac Biz Outsourcing. At Pac Biz, we help NEMT, taxi, software, and e-commerce companies scale their customer support and back office operations with dedicated teams in the Philippines. Our teams can handle calls, email, chat, dispatch, back office administrative work, billing as an extension of your operations. For example, one client saved over $600,000 a year by switching key dispatch support roles to Pac Biz. So if you’re looking to lower cost, improve support, or add capacity without building everything in-house, visit us at pack-biz.com or give us a call Monday through Friday during business hours at 480-771-3009. Alright, so I’m super excited about our next interview, as I said a bit earlier. So let me get you guys introduced to our next guest. And so he currently serves as the Chief Operating Officer of M7, Connecticut’s largest provider of non-emergency medical transportation and on-demand wheelchair accessible transportation. With a lifelong career in the transportation industry, he has dedicated his work to improving mobility for seniors, individuals with disabilities, and others who lack reliable access to transportation. His passion is rooted in a very simple belief. Equal access to transportation is a right, and everyone should have the ability to participate in their communities to live fuller, more independent lives. Throughout his career, he has also taken on leadership roles within the transportation industry. He currently serves as vice chairman of the board of directors of the Non-Emergency Medical Transportation Accreditation Commission, or NEMTAC, board member of the Transportation Alliance, or TTA, and board member of the Connecticut Health Council. Additionally, he serves as chair of NEMTAC’s Technology and Innovation Committee and has previously held committee chair positions for TTA’s young transportation professionals, NEMT/Paratransit, and legislative affair committees. Through his work in both the private sector and industry leadership, he remains focused on advancing accessible, equitable, and innovative transportation solutions for the communities and individuals who need the most. Ladies and gentlemen, with all that, please help me welcome to the show, Jeremy Scalzi. Hey Jeremy, welcome to the show.

Jeremy Scalzi: 04:30
Nice to see you.

Eric Mulvin: 04:30
Nice to see you too. Yeah, thanks for taking some time. So, and just a little background here. We’re always shooting in random places. I’ve done some shows in Japan, California, throughout Arizona. And today we are live in Florida at the NEMTAC uh conference here.

Jeremy Scalzi: 04:47
So should have been in Japan, but yeah.

Eric Mulvin: 04:49
Maybe next one. Maybe next one. So uh all right. Well, uh for those of the people who are watching on the show today, I mean I gave a pretty good background on your your background there. Um, but tell me a bit about like the the main company that you’re uh running here, M7, uh, and and what’s that all about?

Jeremy Scalzi: 05:09
Yeah, well great. Uh M7 is a family-run business first off. This is my family’s business. My dad started it back in 1987 uh as a taxi company uh with 15 vehicles in West Haven. We’re around 200 vehicles right now, spanning throughout most of Connecticut, so all the metropolitan areas, eastern. Um, and we primarily do um programs towards seniors, people with disabilities, uh, healthcare services. So we’ve branched uh more or what towards the higher acuity market. Uh individuals who need help into our vehicles we found is a natural progression. Um but it’s been a a wonderful experience um growing up in the business. I feel I can relate to a lot of the transportation providers in our industry. Family businesses are the most common types of transportation providers. You know, you see it everywhere you go, um, which I think is just a testament to the type of work that we do. Um it’s really full of uh people that the industry is full of people who care, who really want to roll up their sleeves and help people get access to the final services that they need.

Eric Mulvin: 06:17
Yeah, you know, it’s interesting you bring that up because I think about our company, we have a we definitely have a lot of family-based businesses we work with. And I always thought that was something that was kind of unique about the transportation industry, but the connection between the care that you have to have for this industry and that family business thing, it because I I don’t know, I mean, not nothing against the big corporations, and we’ve got plenty of clients that are there. Uh, but being a family business, I feel like you bring a different perspective to the whole industry, right?

Jeremy Scalzi: 06:47
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that, you know, especially sometimes we’re serving people in the most sensitive parts of their lives. You know, health conditions can be incredible, incredibly taxing on the soul. Um, so when someone gets in our vehicle, you know, we train our drivers, we try to take the time to make sure they relay this family feel, you know, so they feel welcome in our vehicles, they feel secure and they know that they’re gonna get to their appointment on time safely and get the care that they need.

Eric Mulvin: 07:14
Yeah, cool. And I’m really fascinated to hear more about uh like growing up in the industry. It must be really interesting. Uh, because I it I was like two, I guess, when your company started. I I think you were already born probably when it started. Yeah, yeah.

Jeremy Scalzi: 07:29
Uh no, I was uh I think that was what seven years before, uh eight years before I was born. So I’m uh yeah, it’s it’s was always very interesting um growing up in the family business. Um, you know, I remember change in oil with my cousin in the food lane, you know, when I was young. And um I held some of my first jobs were dispatching positions, call center positions. Um but you know, it helps really round you out as a leader when you do mature and you’re able to take a larger role in the company. Um, having started done basically every role of the company, you really understand, you know, what people need, you know, from my call taking days. I remember some of the questions our our uh our passengers would ask me. Um some fun, uh definitely, some some a little spicy. But uh I think that comes with the territory. Um dispatching when our drivers call in, how they can help. I remember, you know, there was one instance where a driver called me panicking. Um he had a uh a passenger in his vehicle having a breakdown. Um so we were able to, you know, call the facility, get therapists out, able to get that pasture the care they needed, but 16 years old sort of thrown into the fire. That’s what happens as uh as a family business. Um and you know, I will say that um also growing up and getting you know to take a larger role in the company, you have more respect for your parents. Um when you see them at when when I did see them at my every sporting event, you know, we were able to spend time as a family on the weekends, seeing the amount of work that it takes to run a company like this really just puts things into perspective, makes you feel a lot more thankful for the time that they gave you, you know, when when you were younger, because I know that probably wasn’t easy for them, especially with the the roles that both my mom and my dad had at the company um to make that work. So it’s a special thing for sure.

Eric Mulvin: 09:38
Has that appreciation kind of come more recently? I know you’re somewhat of a recent parent now, so now you understand more of the sacrifice that they made.

Jeremy Scalzi: 09:46
Absolutely. Um, you know, trying to find that work-life balance between, you know, running a company versus trying to make sure that you know your child has everything they need to thrive and you know have a better life than you had, um, which I had a pretty darn good one, thanks to my parents. So, you know, just trying to always improve, make yourself better. Uh, you know, it’s a it’s a fun thing, sometimes not fun to balance, but yeah. Uh but yeah, it’s it’s exciting.

Eric Mulvin: 10:16
Cool. And now M7 started as a taxi company. Uh obviously, this NEMTAC thing didn’t, the term didn’t, I mean, uh non-emergency medical transportation didn’t even exist as a term or acronym until the last few years. I think before that it was just considered paratransit, right?

Jeremy Scalzi: 10:34
Yeah, yeah. There’s always been NEMT. I think um I’m really excited to see the industry embrace NEMT. Um, you know, through the evolution of NEMTAC, we’ve seen a lot of folks come out and say, hey, you know, what is this? We know, we know the headache that comes from it, right? But we don’t really understand the the value of standards. We don’t understand, you know, all of the tiny little nuances between the millions of trips that happen every day. Um so making sure that we’re able to convey that in a in a way that is digestible, that’s you know easy to uh implement policy changes for, I think is a fantastic thing to see. Um we started doing Medicaid work uh a year after, 1988, after we got founded uh with the state Medicaid program. So we always had that little aspect of NEMT. But um most recently, I think the the best positive change I could see is the uh I think holistic embrace of service levels, not just curb to curb, right? It’s not a one size fits all. Yeah. You have to adapt to different situations. So we’ve really focused more on you know door-to-door, person to person, door-through-door transportation, every level up, uh, you know, where you can get away from the curb, access those more sensitive populations who really need that level of assistance. Um, I think makes all the difference and uh exciting.

Eric Mulvin: 12:10
Yeah, I mean, it’s been even in Phoenix, I the number of vehicles, and I ever I’m driving around on the freeway, I’m like, I never see the same company twice, it seems like. There’s so many names of uh companies that are out there. And then over the last couple of years, it’s really it seems like exploded uh versus when you guys were early on. I mean, what’s it like to see that level of access being expanded across the country these last couple of years?

Jeremy Scalzi: 12:36
Oh, it’s fantastic. I mean, on my way over here, I had a conversation with um uh a husband and wife who started a company less than a year ago, and they came to NEMTAC to really learn what’s this all about? How do we improve our services? How do we, you know, um grow in this market? It’s a very challenging thing, but all they know for sure is a lot of people need their services because they’ve gotten so much feedback. Hey, we really appreciate what you do. You know, we haven’t been able to get transportation, so there’s a huge need. Um, and this industry is very fragmented. There’s it’s made up of a lot of small providers. The average size of your NEMT provider is 10 cars. Um, so it’s incredibly fascinating to see all these tiny cops working together to provide one service. I think what we’d like to see is that form is that service become a little bit more uniform.

Eric Mulvin: 13:33
Yeah.

Jeremy Scalzi: 13:33
Um, you know, standard expectations for every single service level, um, and standard expectations of providers. You know, what can we expect out of an NEMT provider? Um the quality of the vehicles, the quality of the training, the quality of the drivers, the quality of the people running the company, uh, and overall integrity of the program, I think is super important.

Eric Mulvin: 13:55
Yeah, well, it’s interesting, you know, you’re you’re on the board for NEMTAC here. So and how long have you been involved with NEMTAC then?

Jeremy Scalzi: 14:03
Um, I’ve been on the board for about three years now, three and a half years.

Eric Mulvin: 14:07
Okay.

Jeremy Scalzi: 14:08
Three years, I think.

Eric Mulvin: 14:09
Yeah. And yeah, it does. Uh but what was your what was your motivation for getting involved there?

Jeremy Scalzi: 14:18
Well, NEMT, of course, is a large part of our business, that’s for sure. Um But I think, you know, the many issues that plague our industry is one of the reasons why you know I got involved. Frankly, it’s difficult to tell somebody, hey, we’re better, you know, um, or we provide a better service, but we’re way more expensive. So please pay a higher rate for us, right? There’s yeah, there’s really just there, they have to take our word for it unless they, of course, see our services. But um, I think you know, the ability to accredit ourselves, to have a third party come in and say, listen, we reviewed their policies, we did a thorough investigation of their business, they operate at a different level um than other providers, I think just really makes me happy to see um and gives me some relief as a provider. So, what I would love to see is probably just some more um, you know, I guess the adoption of that um accreditation process throughout the entire country.

Eric Mulvin: 15:24
So with M7, I know I had the opportunity to come out, see a little bit of your operation a couple years back, uh, and uh meet the meet the team and the family, some of the drivers. Good time. Yeah. And one of the great, great time in Connecticut there. Got some good pizza. Yep, got it. Uh, but one of the things that I found like so inspiring about your guys’ business that I’ve never seen in any other company, at least up until then, is uh you had an entire fleet, all wheelchair accessible ADA vehicles, which I’ve never seen before. Most people have a couple vehicles, uh, and then a couple NEMT type vehicles, and then like taxis or something.

Jeremy Scalzi: 16:05
Well, we do have, yeah, so about like we have like uh 40% accessible vehicles. We we do ambulatory as well. Um, but uh but we do have a large fleet of accessible vehicles for sure.

Eric Mulvin: 16:17
Um with M7, I had the opportunity to come out, see your guys’ site, uh, get to see some of the operations, meet the family like your dad, Bill, yeah, and uh some of the family that runs it. And I got to learn about how you guys have really been one of the pioneers, I feel like maybe in even in the country, definitely in Connecticut, for accessible transportation.

Jeremy Scalzi: 16:36
Yeah.

Eric Mulvin: 16:37
And so just talk to me a little bit more about that. Like what what was the motivation behind being making it such such an important part of M7?

Jeremy Scalzi: 16:46
Yeah, well, so funny enough, uh, my dad loves telling the story, by the way. But um, so uh before 2009, it was actually uh against the law for taxi companies in Connecticut to provide accessible services. So uh we were instrumental in the ability to actually do that work. So in 1997, uh my dad said he saw a newspaper article in the New Haven Register. Uh it was about a high school student who suffered a diving accident, and she was paralyzed from the waist down. So um her neighbors got together, built her a ramp to get us out of her out outside of her house, right? And he thought, okay, so it took all of that just to get her outside of her home. What then, you know, how does she go do something as simple as go to a friend’s sleepover or do these tiny little things that everyone takes for granted but are so instrumental in, you know, a high schooler’s social life. So um we started the uh campaign with the uh legislative uh body in Connecticut to get a bill passed to allow us to do accessible transportation. Uh it was a 12-year battle. Oh my gosh. 12-year battle way harder than it should have been. Um, but we finally got approved in 2009 as the first on-demand wheelchair accessible transportation company in Connecticut. Um, and then in 2011, uh, we partnered um with a uh Clean Energy, I think it was, to um launch about 105 compressed natural gas wheelchair accessible vehicles. Um so those were zero emission vehicles, um, side entry. Um so they were able to, the pastures able to ride in the front pasture area, which I think is uh very important to a better experience for wheelchair accessible pastures to feel included in the ride. Um, but that was a phenomenal program and really sort of jumpstarted our accessible service.

Eric Mulvin: 18:42
Yeah, that’s incredible. I can’t imagine for any business like that might be watching right now working on something for 12 years and still like until that 12th year, you don’t see any results yet. Like I know a lot of people would have been like, uh, you know, we’ll just give up.

Jeremy Scalzi: 18:58
Yeah, no. Well, in this industry, you can’t give up. Um, you know, things take time and it takes time to educate. I think that’s one of the great things that NEMTAC does is it takes the time to educate the industry. Um, even I I always like to say half of our company is actually not transportation, but it’s more consulting. Um, you know, whenever I sit down with a facility uh to talk about our services, half of it is education. It’s really saying, listen, you should expect this out of your transportation providers. You can go here to build bill this trip. Um, I feel like as a um, you know, someone who books, and this can be a transportation coordinator, a receptionist at a facility. Yeah, you almost need a PhD these days to figure out uh where to book your rides. This patient has this insurance plan, which is managed by this broker, so you call them to get authorization for the trip. Whereas this patient has this plan who is managed by this broker who needs authorization to do the trip. Um, there’s no centralized system to be able to just book a ride. Um and we find that often these trips end up getting billed to Medicaid, even when people have dual eligibility and should not be billing Medicaid. Yeah. Um it’s billed to Medicaid simply for uh you know a lack of information because the individuals booking just don’t know where to book, and how could they? Because there’s just so many conflicting bits of information. So that’s what we do. We point them in the right direction. We make sure that they’re able to request us if it’s managed by a broker or book through us if we’ve got a direct partnership there, and that’s been a huge help for them.

Eric Mulvin: 20:40
Wow, I did not realize how difficult it was for those end users to navigate like the complexity there. That’s crazy.

Jeremy Scalzi: 20:49
Yeah, there’s a million different plans with a million different benefits, and some of them have an AMT, some of them don’t. It’s a very, you know, complex thing is a just someone who’s supposed to be booking a ride. Um, you know, the easy thing to do is just bill it to the patient. But the patients have enough costs that they have on them. Uh, we’d like to get as much as we can build to insurance companies, which I’m thankful that uh a lot of the uh you know managed care organizations out there, the insurance plans really understand the value, the ROI of NEMT. Um there’s been a lot of studies that show that the uh you know every dollar invested in transportation saves about a thousand percent um in future avoided medical costs. So a phenomenal thing. You know, you can keep your beneficiaries healthy, you can provide them the services they need for preventative care and make sure that we overall have a less costly program and healthier patients.

Eric Mulvin: 21:52
Yeah. Oh, and so for uh going back to NEMTAC, and you know, because I see there’s There’s a huge need for education for the providers, for the people in the system navigating everything. Why would uh because obviously there’s a lot of companies out there maybe just joining the organization for NEMTAC or just finding out, why would someone that is getting into the space get involved with NEMTAC at all?

Jeremy Scalzi: 22:21
Well, the first reason is information. So NEMTAC is the only, well, A, this is the largest and only NEMT specific conference in the world. Um I had the uh thought the other day, how many ambulance comp uh conferences happen around the world each year? And the answer is somewhere around 150.

Eric Mulvin: 22:45
150 ambulance conferences?

Jeremy Scalzi: 22:47
Around the world, yeah.

Eric Mulvin: 22:48
But that’s a lot.

Jeremy Scalzi: 22:49
And those are ambulance-focused conferences, right? So specific to ambulances. Um, when I Googled how many NEMT-focused conferences, there’s only one. And it’s NEMTAC. So I think what we’re doing here is really special because we’re able to really focus on NEMT specifically, right? There’s other organizations, the Transportation Alliance provides really great information for operators and has a great NEMT track for sure. And it’ll show you how to run that business, right? But in general, this is a great place at NEMTAC to come together, policymakers, healthcare organizations, insurance companies, you know, um providers, brokers, tech providers, all can come together and just feed off of each other, really get down into the details and learn what makes this industry tick. How can we improve? How can we provide a better patient-centric model? Because I’ve always found when you start with the patient and you build a system around them, it works well. Yeah. If you start anywhere else, you just frankly create holes. Um, and that leads to delayed care, puts pressure on hospitals, puts pressure on patients. Yeah. Um, and that’s something that we should avoid at all costs.

Eric Mulvin: 24:07
Yeah. Well, with having that organization and building this up, uh, what are some of the threats that you guys are also trying to navigate, either for the industry or maybe the providers directly to help them out to avoid that or foresee issues in the future?

Jeremy Scalzi: 24:23
Yeah. Um threats, I think, uh, fall in the same line as opportunities. You know, um, I could sit here as a transportation provider and tell you, you know, I’m completely anti-autonomous vehicles. I don’t want anyone having autonomous vehicles in our industry. I think it takes away from it. There’s a population that could very well benefit from autonomous vehicles. Um, you know, I think the supply is so overburdened in the industry that um it’s about classifying the right vehicle, the right provider for the right situation, right? Folks who just frankly don’t have access to transportation either due to a lack of public transportation or single-car household, or frankly, they just can’t drive themselves anymore, um, but are overall healthy and just need a ride. Those folks don’t need an accredited provider with, you know, all of the training and help. They just need a ride, right? Yeah. So those folks can move into the uh autonomous vehicle state, um, and uh or you know, rideshare drivers who, you know, frankly just provide a ride to and from the destination with no help, right? Great market for that. And it’s cost effective. So it can help reduce costs for uh the state, for insurance providers. The um the real market for accredited providers, for folks who train their drivers very well, who take the safety precautions that they should, those are for the individuals who really need a higher level of service. So the individuals who need door-to-door care, door-through-door, um, you know, those folks really do need that level of assistance. So I think looking at the system macroscopically and trying to create a pay, start with the patient again and create a macroscopic, holistic ecosystem that has cross-functionality between low acuity providers, high acuity providers, and just create a system that really works for choosing the right vehicle, the right provider for the right service level. That’s I think uh an important part of what we’re trying to educate on. So um, you know, I think that that’s one of the more exciting things that gets me out about each month.

Eric Mulvin: 26:39
Nice. Yeah. It has definitely changed so much. And before, again, I know you guys have had the wheelchair accessible vehicles from early on, it sounds like, but uh, I I just think about Phoenix. And there was actually one of my early, when I first started my first taxi cab company in 2011, my first mentor was through the organization Score. He had a non-emergency medical transportation company, and that was like who helped me out in the beginning. So I knew they were around, but they it was definitely a different era back then.

Jeremy Scalzi: 27:12
So but you know, that’s a great reflection on the industry, right? I mean, a lot of providers like to help each other out. Some of my best ideas aren’t my best ideas, they just come from a conversation with a helpful provider who says, look at what I’m doing in this you know, corner of the US. Um, and we start to share in ideas. I can teach them something, they can teach me something, and we all come away benefiting from it. So that’s one of the best part of parts of these conferences is being able to have those types of conversations.

Eric Mulvin: 27:40
I think you’re in a neak unique position being on the board for NEMTAC and and also you know, you do have some involvement with uh you know government policies are trying to help formulate form that. Uh, are there any trends that you see happening in the industry that uh maybe providers out there might need to start planning for now?

Jeremy Scalzi: 28:02
Um well the trends I see are are mostly all about cost. Um I think you know a lot of the the focus these days is more on cost rather than the quality of care. Um so I would say, you know, to any provider out there, try to balance the two as best you can without cutting corners. You know, I think it’s it’s really important to build your business fundamentally based around providing a great experience for your passengers. Um but there’s a lot of costs increasing these days. You know, you have vehicles increasing, you’ve got uh technology increasing, insurance increasing. It’s a very competitive market out there. Um so being able to come in for the right price uh, you know, while still providing a quality service, it’s a difficult thing to do, and it’s increasingly difficult. So um managing that as best you can, you have to be savvy for sure.

Eric Mulvin: 28:58
Yeah, yeah. And now you mentioned technology. I’m curious what you’re seeing in the industry as far as uh AI. You know, we on the show we talk a lot about what people are doing with AI that empowers people, helps, helps not eliminate jobs, but creates jobs or or just makes the experience better, maybe for the the customers. Uh so what are you seeing in NEMT with uh AI?

Jeremy Scalzi: 29:23
Yeah, um, there’s a lot of exciting parts about AI. Um, there’s a lot of scary parts about AI, right? Um the you know most exciting things I see through AI is going to be helping with manifests. Um so I’ll take our company, for example. Um, we have independent contractor drivers. So they choose their schedule, they’re in complete control of everything they do out there. Um if I wanted to create a routing system, A, they would of course have to opt into it. Um they have the choice for everything. Um but B, it can’t be on a specific start time every single day. Has to be customizable to make sure that it’s accounting for something like that. Um now AI, it’s it’s as good as your inputs. So you can really craft something special to create a route that A accounts for cancellations. You know, some of our um accounts, you know, through government work have frankly like 50% cancellation, right? Um it’s it’s a difficult thing to manage. But being able to have an AI system come in, your third trip cancels on your manifest, the AI uh bot can automatically reroute that entire day to make sure the vehicle’s still moving efficiently, the driver is able to make a very comfortable living for themselves, and we’re able to stay on task and hit our KPIs. So um that’s an incredibly fascinating thing as well. Um, I’ll say the exciting part about the data as well is predictive analytics, making sure that you’re able to see where your trips are going to come out before they even get booked. Yeah, that’s a phenomenally um well, that’s just a very interesting concept, right? Yeah. Um and something that you know we’d like to dabble in. Um we’ve dabbled in it a little bit, but you have to be very careful with what you put into AI. We have and we do manage PHI, right? As NEMT providers, we manage PHI. So being able to actually, you know, treat that with the care that that that it should have, yeah. Um, but also use these data analytics tools you need to operate your business efficiently is a very fine line there. Um and you have to be very careful. So if I would uh recommend anything to transportation providers out there, I would say first off, embrace you know AI for your data analytics, but also be a little bit careful with how you actually go about that. Um, make sure that you’re not giving away any of the any sensitive information about your pastures because um frankly that could uh open you up to a uh whole storm of things that you don’t want.

Eric Mulvin: 32:05
Yeah. Have there been any horror stories coming out yet? I haven’t heard any story. Okay, that’s good.

Jeremy Scalzi: 32:10
Um, it seems like people are are really handling it with caution.

Eric Mulvin: 32:15
Um so hopefully it stays that way.

Jeremy Scalzi: 32:18
We say it stays that way. Um, but that’s why we haven’t really dove too deep into that yet, um, because we want to make sure we’ve got the guardrails in place before we we tackle that.

Eric Mulvin: 32:29
Yeah, that’s good. Good to hear. Yeah, yeah, because uh definitely some industries, it’s uh it’s been interesting to see what’s been happening with AI and well, and it it still is uh, as we talk about with a lot of guests, the Wild West for the most part. Like the regulation is still not there. Uh yeah. And I don’t know if it will be anytime soon.

Jeremy Scalzi: 32:48
No, I mean, well, it’s it’s ever changing, right? I mean, it’s it’s advancing so quickly. I don’t know how you could regulate something like it. Um, you know, the other the other part is AI call centers. Um, you know, uh we use um some sort of automation for our our call center, mainly just for rides where people don’t need to talk to somebody. Yeah, but most of our work is for a very you know sensitive market. So I could never you know just change my entire call center to AI agents in a world where I didn’t even care about my call center, my call center agents, right? Um we would never do that to anyone. And actually during COVID, we um didn’t have a layout any layoffs, which I think was a very difficult thing to do. Um, but we were able to push through and make sure that we were able to still provide quality service for our seniors and people with disabilities. But some of those phone calls take 40 minutes, you know, where you’re on with somebody really trying to get them to understand our services, make sure that they’re comfortable with booking their ride. Um, and that’s something that an AI call center can’t replace, right? You have to have live folks able to take care of those types of populations. So um, you know, we’re still in the infancy, uh, I think for AI call centers. But um, you know, luckily we work a few folks, we work a few other folks, so yeah, it’s uh it’s it’s something that I don’t think we would ever replace.

Eric Mulvin: 34:19
Well, I appreciate that. But we like to be the human in the loop though, and I think you know, as things evolve, we know uh we have to embrace the technology as well because it’s you know, whether we like it or not, it’s coming. But I do appreciate that one of the things I do like is how it’s taken some of the pressure off of our call center folks when you have AI that can handle some of those rude like easy calls.

Jeremy Scalzi: 34:44
Yeah, the easy ones, absolutely.

Eric Mulvin: 34:45
So I think we have more time with the more difficult ones that need a little more care, a little extra hand holding. And you’re right, yeah, a lot of them they’re it could be maybe English even is isn’t even their first language, they’re a senior, not good with technology. They can’t just download the app and start booking rides. So yeah, it definitely is uh there’s a lot there to navigate. Absolutely.

Jeremy Scalzi: 35:05
Yeah, it always is in this industry, though.

Eric Mulvin: 35:07
That’s true. So um I wanted to bring it back to M7 a little bit more uh as we get kind of closer to the end here. Um so with uh oh you some of the work that I I was gonna ask about this, like your guys’ background with like pol legislative policy, you’re on some of the groups that help um help, I’m guessing, speak to Washington about that. And I was gonna ask what got you in like involved or inspired to do that. But then you also mentioned your family’s 12-year journey trying to get that. So I’m guessing that played a big role in motivating you to be into that.

Jeremy Scalzi: 35:48
Very instrumental, yeah, was um that push because I think I really got a sense, and I was too young at the time, um, I think to understand uh that the difficulty of actually educating and getting that bill passed to allow us to do the accessible services in Connecticut. Um, now being older and going to DC every year, I attend TTA’s legislative fly-in. Um it’s a difficult thing uh to get a policymaker or anyone um to just see all of the nuances of this industry. Normally you get a short amount of time, right? NEMT is not an elevator pitch. Uh it’s not something. No, that’s not something that can be summarized. Um, I don’t know how to tell you uh to summarize um, you know, the difference between door to door and curb to curb in 30 seconds, let alone door through door or person to person. It’s there’s so many different nuances on every single service level here. Um so education is definitely the most important thing. Um but you know it always falls in line with advocacy because half of our job is also advocacy, making sure that people have the right to affordable transportation. Um, our encompass program in uh we started in Greater Hartford Transit District. So that was the first of its kind. Um basically, seniors, uh people with disabilities uh can apply through the transit district. They get a card in a particular account. It’s five dollars for eight miles for them, which can get them anywhere in their local communities in Connecticut, and a reduced taxi rate if they want to go beyond that.

Eric Mulvin: 37:32
So five bucks for eight up to eight miles, which covers probably most of your rides you need, as long as you’re not like way out in the boonies somewhere.

Jeremy Scalzi: 37:41
Well, that that eight mile mark came from um it didn’t come from nowhere. So uh we we our average trip length is 7.32 miles. Okay. So we said, okay, eight miles, that’ll get you most most of where you need to go. Um and transit districts do a flat rate match per trip, so drivers still get good fares. Um the transit districts cap their per passenger uh cost, which is unheard of in um in public transportation. The seniors get the ability, and and folks with disabilities get the ability to um get an affordable ride, and with they also get a train drive. Um, so all of that for a very, very reasonable rate. The thing that I I always shocks regulators when I tell them it is we get play paid on completed trips for those, right? So in essence, the government is paying only for a hundred percent uptime, right? They’re never paying for deadhead mileage, they’re never paying for unused vehicle time. So anytime you see a paratransit vehicle, you know, um cruising around for with zero passengers in it, that’s a very expensive thing for the government, right? Yeah, um, and these private partners, these put public-private partnerships that we have with our transit agencies um make all of the sense of the world for all three parties involved for M7, for the transit agency, and for the passenger. So uh going back to the advocacy part, when we meet with legislators in Connecticut, getting them to understand the importance of those types of programs can’t really come from us. It comes from your riders. Um, so engaging them, making sure they’re able to share their stories. Um, you know, we had a story of um one of our pastors who um could now go to medical appointments because her insurance didn’t have any MT benefits, but she was able to take this very low-cost ride, get out of the home, and actually start getting a job as well. So she got a job in her local community. She used Encompass to get to um her job and to her medical appointments, and she’s now engaged. The state is getting tax revenue off of her income. Uh, she’s getting medical appointments taken care of that she had waiting forever, so she’s healthier, and she’s able to do all of that because we created a cost-effective program with the government. I mean, I couldn’t ask for anything more um as a transportation provider. So well, except for probably more funding to expand it to more folks like her.

Eric Mulvin: 40:17
Yeah. Well, well, what’s been the reaction from the legislatures and the the people in the government when they hear these stories?

Jeremy Scalzi: 40:24
Oh, it’s been nothing but positive reception. Um, I think everybody loves it. The the hardest thing to do is to fund it, right? Um to find the money to um you know be able to provide that service. So um that’s always going to be a struggle when you’re dealing with any government contracts. Yeah. It’s an interesting hurdle to cross. And it starts with the advocacy and the education.

Eric Mulvin: 40:50
Yeah. So with that program, is it is there anything like that in the country, or was that like kind of one of the first of its kind?

Jeremy Scalzi: 40:58
It’s the first that I’ve heard of it. Um, there’s always going to be different types of programs. For instance, the New Freedom Fund is um basically our version of the um taxi voucher program, and that was just a 50% match program. So um a rider can apply to that program. They would put in $100 and they’d get $200 worth of buying power for rides, right? That’s one of the more common uh forms of 5310 capital or sorry, operational uh grant funding. But um this was definitely one of the first of its kind where it was a little bit different um in the way that uh it’s structured. The private ride, the ID card that they show in the in the vehicle, and the approval process to the transit district is all tech-based, streamlined, it’s easy to do. Um, and our agents help with that over the phone as well. So if folks call our company, they can know that they’re they’ll have the help that they need to submit that application.

Eric Mulvin: 41:57
Cool. And there’s just so much unique stuff that you guys do. So with M7 being a family business, what’s it been like going from being the kid changing the oil to now your COO, right? Like you’re running the operations of the company.

Jeremy Scalzi: 42:14
Well, it’s it’s uh it’s been fun, definitely. It’s been really interesting to learn every part of the business and then now I guess more manage it macroscopically and make sure everything’s running smoothly and that the company’s growing. Um and you know, with all the changes to the industry, whether it’s the advent of digital ride hailing uh or COVID most recently, right? There’s always changes to the industry. So being able to prepare to um see the next shock to the industry coming and being able to work around it. Um I don’t think anyone saw COVID coming.

Eric Mulvin: 42:53
Nope. Uh and that hit you guys really like, I mean, that hit the transportation pro industry like crazy.

Jeremy Scalzi: 43:01
Oh, yeah. Well, the only reason why we survived is because we uh put shields in our cars, separated the drivers from the pastors, and did COVID-positive transportation. So um a lot of healthcare facilities were calling us saying, Oh, we can’t send this patient home with their family because they would get infected. No other transportation providers will do it. Will you help us? And that’s just it’s always an opportunity when you’re able to solve a problem. You know, problems are just opportunities.

Eric Mulvin: 43:30
So man, you guys must have been looked at as like the heroes in the community for that because that’s like that was a big challenge all over the world.

Jeremy Scalzi: 43:38
Yeah, it was, it was. Um, and you know, we invested in things that we never thought we’d have to. I mean, hospital grade misters that can power sanitize the interior of our vehicles. We did that after every trip. Um, you know, teaching our drivers how to um properly social distance. But how do you social distance when you’re loading a wheelchair past your interior? Oh, yeah. Um, you know, so the full PPE to keep them safe, all of those little things. Um and then I guess on top of that, uh how to navigate all of the government assistance programs that were there to make sure you could still keep your business afloat uh with the reduced trip counts until back to the normal level.

Eric Mulvin: 44:23
So as a business leader, like what was the biggest lesson you learned out of all that whole COVID experience that you can take on into your your career now?

Jeremy Scalzi: 44:31
Uh be ready for everything. Um try to prepare for as much as you can uh off the bat. And if there’s any programs out there that the government is providing that you can work through through a vendor, anything, except help. Um you know, really talk to your fellow providers, ask them how they’re faring the storm, and um you know, share your stories um so that your friends can fare the storm. Um but overall prep your your business for whatever shock you see in the future, prep it now. Um because you never know when it’s gonna come.

Eric Mulvin: 45:11
You know, for good advice. Yeah.

Jeremy Scalzi: 45:12
For us, it’s autonomous vehicles. You know, we want to make sure that all of our trips uh we’re assisting on. We’re assisting people into our vehicles, we’re assisting people from the door through the door to make sure that you know, if driverless cars come out into our area, we’re already good because we help people into our vehicle. Every time we train a driver, we always say our niche is helping. That is the one niche that we have in our industry.

Eric Mulvin: 45:38
Nice. Cool. One of the things that we cover on the show too is family businesses, because uh we have a lot of businesses in my world here that are family-run businesses. So there, and being that a lot of the providers also are starting out as family businesses. And if you’re around 10 years, 15 years or longer, you start having kids and they grow up in the business, and there’s a question about, you know, do you get your kids involved in the company? What advice would you give to a business owner? It doesn’t have to be just uh NEMT, but just a business owner in general, thinking about like getting their kids in the family because you’re the second generation, right? And so you’re this is probably the dream of what some business owners are watching, like, I wish I could get my son to be like that one day. Yeah. So what advice would you say to the business owners who are first generation trying to get their second generation in? Because you have that perspective.

Jeremy Scalzi: 46:32
Yeah, well, well, I guess the best advice I could give is don’t force him. Uh okay. I, you know, like any good son, wanted nothing to do with the uh business when I left college. So um I went into tech sales, uh, which I think was uh an incredible experience for me. Um cold calling 150 people a day was oh my gosh, uh build some character for sure, right? Um and even after uh I went to work for um attorney Matt Doss at Wendell’s Marks in his transportation practice as an analyst. So um it wasn’t until COVID where things you know were really difficult for the family business that I came back to to help out, make sure that um the business could, you know, still weather that storm. And that’s where I fell in love with it. Right. So don’t force the kids to get involved. Uh really just you know let them come to it on their own. If they love it, great. Um, if not, let them fly and they’ll come back eventually.

Eric Mulvin: 47:33
Yeah. That’s a good advice. Yeah, because I could see that being I hear some business owners and they’re trying to get their kids involved, and they’re like, uh, not really into it.

Jeremy Scalzi: 47:43
Well, you know, it’s it’s uh it’s a stressful industry. So some some business owners will probably want their kids to get involved. Others are like, I don’t want to type for you, right? Um, but I will say there’s something special with working about family, uh working with family. You know, knowing, as my dad says it, knowing when you’re walking down the hallway that someone you you see your dad, you see your son, and you know that they’ve got your back no matter what, right? Um that’s hard to find in business, and you can find that through employees that you trust and all of that stuff, but nothing can replace family because you know at the end of the day, they’ll do anything it takes to make sure that um the business is operating the way that it should.

Eric Mulvin: 48:32
Awesome. Well, uh thank you. Uh well, thank you for sharing that. That’s uh that’s an awesome perspective. And uh yeah, we’ll see. Um we talk about it all the time with our kids, like, oh, are they gonna take over the call center one day or the the marketing agency? I don’t know. We don’t know. Yeah, I don’t want to force them into it though. I’m not I’m not uh bringing them up to say, oh, you’re gonna do that.

Jeremy Scalzi: 49:01
But yeah, yeah, well, you know, they gotta come to it on their own time, but I’m sure they will.

Eric Mulvin: 49:06
Yeah, cool. Well, now that you’re you know next generation and eventually, I don’t know how much your dad’s still involved, uh, but eventually, you know, you’re gonna be probably completely running things and shaping the future of the company. And I’m sure you’re already doing that now. So with this show being unfinished business, you know, we always ask all of our guests, what’s your unfinished business? And so for you, whether it’s through M7, whether it’s through NEMTAC and what they’re doing in the country, uh, what’s some unfinished business for you that you’d like to see in your lifetime? That’s such a good question.

Jeremy Scalzi: 49:40
I think, you know, the biggest unfinished business for me is fill in the transportation deserts. Um I think that technology has evolved too much for there to be holes in our public transportation infrastructure. Um, microtransit is an incredibly cost-effective way to launch public transit options in rural areas. We our Enfield program, uh, an East Windsor program, we launched um that program, and we were kind of concerned it’s an ultra-rural area. There’s not many folks out there. We do 2,400 rides every month for that. Oh wow. Right. And so it just goes to show when people have access to transportation, they use it. Um, nobody wants to be stuck home. The cost of social isolation is the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day on the body. It is very taxable.

Eric Mulvin: 50:35
15 cigarettes a day?

Jeremy Scalzi: 50:36
Yeah, that’s uh that’s what the study said.

Eric Mulvin: 50:39
Um even if it’s half that, even if it’s one cigarette a day, that’s still like crazy to think about that as uh the side effect of that.

Jeremy Scalzi: 50:46
Well, and you know, there’s there’s so much uh COVID hangover with isolationism, you know, folks being stuck in their homes either because they don’t want to come out or because um, you know, they can’t get out of their homes. Um working from home has its benefits, it also has its costs. Um so being able to uh have folks age in place as this um population becomes older, have them stay in their homes, get the care they need so they don’t have to go to a living facility if they don’t want to.

Jeremy Scalzi: 51:17
Yeah.

Jeremy Scalzi: 51:17
Um you know, that is really, I think, my unfinished business. I’d love to be able to uh educate folks to find funding for cost-effective ways to uh uh fill in transportation deserts. And you know, one thing about transportation deserts is it’s not geographical. You know, it can be a gap in healthcare coverage, it can be a gap in uh education around booking, it can be a gap in a way a system is designed, or the ability for healthcare providers to work directly with transportation providers to get their uh patients picked up. You know, every facility partnership we have that we’re able to work directly with the facility, it won’t it runs so smoothly because every party involved knows exactly what’s happening at every stage of the trip. So um, you know, I would say it’s a heck of an unfinished business.

Eric Mulvin: 52:15
But that’s all right, we’ve had some big ones on the show.

Jeremy Scalzi: 52:17
Filling in the geographical um transportation deserts, filling in the coverage transportation deserts, the service level-based transportation deserts, that’s definitely my unfinished business. And it all starts with education, which is why we’re here.

Eric Mulvin: 52:32
That that’s incredible. I mean, just uh the example you gave of the 2400 rides happening now in that rural area a month, that if that program didn’t exist, how would those people get around? And that’s just one little community. There’s pockets of that all over the country.

Jeremy Scalzi: 52:47
So and the most common uh pickup locations are uh low-income housing, and the most common destinations are healthcare facilities, jobs, and uh grocery stores. So that right there is um oh, and the fourth is education um to the local community college there. So, I mean, what a fantastic program to connect all five pillars of the social determinants of health. Um, one of our riders, actually from that microtransit program, started driving for us for that microtransit program. Oh, wow. She loved it so much.

Eric Mulvin: 53:20
That’s incredible.

Jeremy Scalzi: 53:20
So those types of stories really just keep me going.

Eric Mulvin: 53:23
Cool. Well, there is so much you shared today. Thank you so much for taking some time. I know you’re busy. And uh, for people who are watching, maybe they’re a provider and they want to learn more about maybe NEMTAC or maybe some of the programs that you’re doing to replicate some of that in their own community. How do they get connected with you?

Jeremy Scalzi: 53:42
Or uh yeah, you can always reach out to me on LinkedIn, uh, send me an email, or um, you know, just come find me at a conference. Um, you know, I attend the NEMTAC each year, I attend the Transportation Alliance, um, the legislative fly-ins uh for the Transportation Alliance, which are incredibly important to share stories with your local legislators. Um, so any of those events, come up to me, say hello. I don’t bite. Um, and I’d always love to have a conversation.

Eric Mulvin: 54:11
Cool. All right. Well, make sure you get connected with Jeremy and help bring some of those awesome programs to your communities because everyone out there needs it. You hear about all those stories of the people that got help and everybody in your community. There’s definitely examples of that everywhere in the country that can uh the transportation could be improved. So, well, thank you guys for watching this show today. I hope you appreciate this episode. And if you want to hear more stories from people in NEMT, from business leaders who are out there making a big difference in the world, then make sure you follow and subscribe. We’re Unfinished Business with Eric Malvin on any podcast platform that you listen to. And find uh follow us on social media @BizWithEric. Until next time, we’ll catch you guys on the next episode. See you later.

Theme Song: 54:59
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